Erika Dyck, PhD. January 2026

Transcript

• 00:02Okay. So hello, everyone, and
• 00:04welcome to our January,
• 00:07January issue of the the
• 00:08program for psychedelic science seminar.
• 00:10We're in for a treat
• 00:12today
• 00:14with a presentation by historian
• 00:16Erica Dick.
• 00:18Many of you probably know
• 00:19that that some of the
• 00:20the middle of the last
• 00:21century, some of the most
• 00:22prominent work in in therapeutic
• 00:24use of psychedelics was,
• 00:26in Saskatchewan,
• 00:28with Humphrey Osmond. I expect
• 00:29we may hear a little
• 00:30bit about that.
• 00:32But,
• 00:33so so in that lineage,
• 00:35it's great to have Erica
• 00:36here today. She's a professor
• 00:37and a Canada research chair
• 00:39in the history of health
• 00:40and social justice
• 00:41at the University of Saskatchewan,
• 00:43Saskatoon.
• 00:44Her PhD in the History
• 00:46of Medicine researched LSD and
• 00:47Eugenics in Western Canada.
• 00:49She's currently the president of
• 00:51the Alcohol and Drugs History
• 00:53Society, and she's co author
• 00:54of several books,
• 00:56including the book Psychedelic Psychiatry,
• 00:59The Acid Room, and Psychedelics,
• 01:01A Visual Odyssey.
• 01:04So she's gonna give us
• 01:05today a perspective a little
• 01:06different from our our our,
• 01:08the perspectives we often have
• 01:09in this seminar,
• 01:11that are more often more
• 01:12scientific and medically and present
• 01:14oriented. And she's gonna be
• 01:15discussing,
• 01:17from a historical perspective, whether
• 01:19scientific studies alone can change
• 01:20attitudes
• 01:21towards accepting psychedelic assisted therapies
• 01:23or whether we need to
• 01:24look deeper into cultural contexts
• 01:26to understand both the enthusiasm
• 01:28and the resistance
• 01:29that we observe every day,
• 01:31surrounding psychedelics.
• 01:32So, Erica, thank you so
• 01:33much for being with us
• 01:34today. Really looking forward to
• 01:36your talk.
• 01:37Thanks so much. I'm really
• 01:38pleased to be here. And,
• 01:40thanks for letting this happen.
• 01:44I,
• 01:45I, I'm gonna start off
• 01:46by just explaining these images
• 01:48a little bit and then
• 01:49kind of dive into it.
• 01:50And, I don't have a
• 01:51scripted talk. So we'll, I'll
• 01:53just kind of move through
• 01:54a little bit of the
• 01:55history. But then I wanted
• 01:56to talk a little bit
• 01:57about how I think these
• 01:58historical perspectives might be relevant
• 02:01for some of the contemporary
• 02:02challenges or some of the
• 02:03contemporary opportunities that exist on
• 02:04the horizon today.
• 02:06So
• 02:07I did a book last
• 02:09year or a couple of
• 02:09years ago, I guess that
• 02:10I got to update that
• 02:11it's twenty twenty six. Now,
• 02:13with
• 02:14MIT Press on the visual
• 02:16history, and it really sort
• 02:17of plunged me into a
• 02:18world of illustrations
• 02:20and visual
• 02:22encounters with psychedelics that got
• 02:23me thinking a little bit
• 02:24differently about this history. And
• 02:25so I'm I'm
• 02:26using a couple of images
• 02:28from that book on the
• 02:29left hand side of the
• 02:29screen. Of course, this is
• 02:30a this is an AI
• 02:31generated image of I think
• 02:33those are meant to be
• 02:34Liberty caps, but we'll we'll
• 02:36just say they were intended
• 02:37to be psilocybin mushrooms, psilocybin
• 02:39containing mushrooms.
• 02:40And I think it's kind
• 02:41of interesting to sort of
• 02:43see this as you know,
• 02:44as an AI generated image.
• 02:45So permissions for it, there
• 02:46was no copyright, there's no
• 02:48author, there's no attribution.
• 02:49And it kind of reminds
• 02:51us of the, you know,
• 02:52the idea that you could
• 02:53scale up psychedelic production through
• 02:56in this case in a
• 02:57beaker.
• 02:58But, you know, using the
• 03:00tools of modern science to
• 03:01create a scalable, maybe a
• 03:03universal
• 03:03set of ideas or some
• 03:05consensus around the effects of,
• 03:07scalable psychedelics.
• 03:08Anyway, I'll leave that to
• 03:10the side. On the other
• 03:11side, this is a poster
• 03:12from nineteen sixty seven. It
• 03:14was created first by,
• 03:16San Franciscan or San Francisco
• 03:18artist, Rick Griffin, who is
• 03:19sort of famous for popularizing
• 03:21posters with the Grateful Dead
• 03:22and others.
• 03:24And according to Griffin, this
• 03:25is a Huichule man or
• 03:27Hueradaca man from Mexico,
• 03:29and around him are sort
• 03:31of, psychedelic plants.
• 03:33And of course, he's set
• 03:34in a kind of rainbow
• 03:35setting there. And I think
• 03:37it's a bit of an
• 03:38homage both to
• 03:39the indigenous cultures that have
• 03:41nourished some of the psychedelic
• 03:43ideas that we still carry
• 03:44with us.
• 03:46But also maybe,
• 03:47a reminder of this, the
• 03:49the sort of cultural embrace
• 03:50of psychedelics that touched into
• 03:52other areas as well is
• 03:54sort of a non medical
• 03:55look. Anyway, with that bit
• 03:57of framing, I'm going to
• 03:58walk into this because I
• 03:59think these
• 04:00two visions for what psychedelics
• 04:02could be or these two
• 04:04cautionary tales perhaps of what
• 04:05psychedelics might be still are
• 04:07with us today.
• 04:10I'll make sure.
• 04:13I I just wanted to
• 04:14to
• 04:15like, as a historian, I'm
• 04:17I'm worried about saying things
• 04:18that aren't historically accurate. So
• 04:20the word psychedelic is coined
• 04:21in nineteen fifty six. But
• 04:23of course, there were other
• 04:24words. These are just, you
• 04:26know, in in the from
• 04:27the anglosphere, of course, that
• 04:29captured these sensations that make
• 04:30this a deeper history than
• 04:32something that began in the
• 04:331950s. Though, I'm going to
• 04:35talk about the 1950s, of
• 04:36course.
• 04:37And some of these images
• 04:38here, I hope also get
• 04:40us thinking a little bit
• 04:41more expansively
• 04:43about how psychedelics have been
• 04:45used in the past, both
• 04:46in clinical context, but also
• 04:48to inspire different kinds of
• 04:50projects from things like mesmerism,
• 04:53or thinking about studies of
• 04:55the paranormal,
• 04:56our parapsychology
• 04:57to
• 04:58artists conservation, indigenous ritual,
• 05:02maybe even to Egyptian ritual,
• 05:04which is on the on
• 05:05the top there. And of
• 05:06course, there's Timothy Leary for
• 05:08you in case you had
• 05:09forgotten that he was part
• 05:10of this as well.
• 05:12I won't talk too much
• 05:13about Larry. But
• 05:15during the pandemic, I worked
• 05:16with a team of researchers,
• 05:18historians, we were all, you
• 05:19know, kind of locked out
• 05:20of the archives as we
• 05:21all sheltered in place during
• 05:22this period. So, what we
• 05:24did was we went online,
• 05:26we searched through online repositories
• 05:29of scientific literature. So this
• 05:31is
• 05:32peer reviewed or supposedly peer
• 05:34reviewed.
• 05:35I can't verify each one,
• 05:37but
• 05:37in the scientific literature,
• 05:39what could we find about
• 05:41where these studies took place
• 05:43through time and we follow
• 05:45different different substances here, you've
• 05:47got LSD, ketamine and MDMA.
• 05:50These maps were really fun
• 05:51and really frustrating to put
• 05:53together because we realized that
• 05:55it was really difficult to
• 05:56figure out what year do
• 05:57you have the country lines
• 05:58on a map? Borders change,
• 06:00of course. So don't get
• 06:02too, fixated on on the
• 06:04specifics here. But what we
• 06:05wanted to demonstrate is that
• 06:07there was quite a bit
• 06:08more movement than sometimes we
• 06:10at first
• 06:11understand. We think about clusters
• 06:13of research that took place
• 06:14maybe in Maryland,
• 06:15or
• 06:16Harvard research, or the Saskatchewan
• 06:18stuff in Weyburn there. But
• 06:20there's actually quite a dynamic
• 06:22display and movement of this
• 06:24kind of research that both
• 06:26goes into North America, it
• 06:27comes out of North America.
• 06:28And if you follow and
• 06:30we can look at peyote,
• 06:31psilocybin and Ayahuasca
• 06:33and see different sort of
• 06:34threads coming out of these
• 06:35places.
• 06:37And typically when I've shared
• 06:39this with other audiences, you
• 06:40know, there's almost invariably someone
• 06:42at the end or at
• 06:43some point who says, yes,
• 06:44but I know about research
• 06:45somewhere else that isn't,
• 06:47displayed here. And I think
• 06:48that's,
• 06:49it's really encouraging and in
• 06:51some ways to hear those
• 06:52stories, because I think these
• 06:53maps, although useful to some
• 06:55degree
• 06:56have also really helped to
• 06:57demonstrate where we have been
• 06:59missing information
• 07:00about studies, some of which
• 07:02are held in, you know,
• 07:03memory or an oral history,
• 07:05or just didn't make their
• 07:06way into an archive or
• 07:07into published literature. So they
• 07:09didn't show up in our
• 07:10online searches. They weren't available
• 07:12to us through digital research.
• 07:14So they're a starting point.
• 07:16And I think interesting, but
• 07:17it also hopefully is inspiring
• 07:19to sort of ferret out
• 07:19some of these other areas
• 07:21that might be underrepresented.
• 07:23And this morning, I was
• 07:24talking to someone in Egypt,
• 07:26who has just found a
• 07:27box of materials from research
• 07:28that was conducted with LSD
• 07:30in nineteen fifty seven,
• 07:33which has just not been
• 07:34on our radar. So he's
• 07:35already suggested we update the
• 07:37maps, and I'm excited to
• 07:38hear what he finds.
• 07:40So a little bit about
• 07:41myself, I started this research
• 07:43in, two thousand, two thousand
• 07:45and one is when I
• 07:45entered the PhD program
• 07:47in two thousand and five.
• 07:48I naively suggested that
• 07:51maybe we had been wrong
• 07:52about LSD and that it
• 07:54needed, you know, we, we
• 07:55should,
• 07:56according to
• 07:57the McMaster newsletter, which I'm
• 07:59sure no one read,
• 08:01I boldly suggested that maybe
• 08:02we needed to look at
• 08:03this past again, that there
• 08:04was something clinically relevant or,
• 08:06you know, beneficial
• 08:08with psychedelic psychiatry,
• 08:10you know, twenty, some years
• 08:11later,
• 08:12a few more gray hairs,
• 08:14I'm back, you know, I
• 08:15haven't really changed my tune
• 08:17entirely, but I think the
• 08:18conversation about psychedelics has changed
• 08:20dramatically
• 08:21so that, you know, instead
• 08:22of having committee members who
• 08:24kind of giggled in hallway
• 08:26after my defense,
• 08:27there's now quite a growing
• 08:29appetite for talking about psychedelics
• 08:31with will will real rigor.
• 08:35But when I started that
• 08:36PhD project and, and Christopher
• 08:38has already sort of, suggested
• 08:40this, you know, I was,
• 08:41I grew up in Saskatchewan.
• 08:43I went away to Ontario
• 08:45and my research drew me
• 08:46back to Saskatchewan, where I
• 08:49naively had not realized that
• 08:51all of this research was
• 08:52taking place, you know, a
• 08:53few years or a few
• 08:54decades before I was born
• 08:56in the 1950s, Saskatchewan, it's
• 08:58sort of in the middle,
• 08:59slightly North of Montana, North
• 09:01and a little bit East
• 09:02of Montana,
• 09:04was home to some internationally
• 09:06significant
• 09:07trials using LSD
• 09:09mescaline, and later psilocybin and
• 09:12a few other substances as
• 09:13well. But those are the
• 09:14ones they primarily used within
• 09:15the clinical context.
• 09:17And they reached out to
• 09:18researchers around the world.
• 09:20We found correspondence, I was
• 09:22just talking to Robert that
• 09:23Salvador Roquette was in Saskatchewan
• 09:25at one point, we know
• 09:26the Huxley's were there.
• 09:28There are a number of
• 09:29people who not only physically
• 09:30come to this place, but
• 09:31the correspondence
• 09:33that has been preserved at
• 09:34least suggests that there's quite
• 09:35a network of people exploring
• 09:37these ideas throughout the 1950s.
• 09:40One of those people here,
• 09:41Aldous Huxley,
• 09:42is through the correspondence between
• 09:44psychiatrist Humphrey Osmond and Aldous
• 09:46Huxley, where they coined the
• 09:47word psychedelic.
• 09:49You may not be as
• 09:50excited about the letter as
• 09:51I was when we found
• 09:52it, but I think I
• 09:53probably squealed.
• 09:54You can see the first
• 09:55time that the word psychedelic
• 09:57is written here in the
• 09:58red ink below.
• 09:59Humphrey
• 10:00Osmond had written in response
• 10:02to Aldous Huxley who said,
• 10:03to make this trivial world
• 10:04sublime, take half a gram
• 10:06of phenerothime.
• 10:07And in the red ink
• 10:08below, you can see to
• 10:09plumb the depths are sora
• 10:10angelic, just take a pinch
• 10:11of psychedelic.
• 10:13He sort of has this
• 10:14playful,
• 10:15couplet that he uses to
• 10:16introduce the word. But a
• 10:18year later, he publishes it
• 10:19in the New York Academy
• 10:20of Sciences and it takes
• 10:22on a different kind of
• 10:23meaning and positions
• 10:25the word psychedelic within
• 10:27an emerging field of psychedelic
• 10:29science or psychedelic psychiatry.
• 10:31And of course, that
• 10:33shift in the 1950s,
• 10:35or the introduction rather of
• 10:36psychedelics, and I guess I
• 10:37can point to the guy
• 10:38behind me, Albert Hoffman, LSD,
• 10:41that happens to be in
• 10:41my dining room,
• 10:43is part of this story.
• 10:45I won't, I won't go
• 10:46on about, Hoffman just yet.
• 10:48But
• 10:49the introduction of LSD
• 10:51and the clinical applications of
• 10:54masculine in particular in the
• 10:551950s
• 10:56really attracted a number of
• 10:58researchers, some of whom were
• 10:59frustrated with psychoanalytical
• 11:01models,
• 11:02some who were interested and
• 11:04drawn to pharmacological
• 11:06models.
• 11:07And this was all happening
• 11:08at the same time that
• 11:09there were other huge, fairly
• 11:10substantial, even paradigmatic changes within
• 11:13psychiatry,
• 11:14at least according to historians
• 11:15of science.
• 11:171950s of course we see
• 11:18the the introduction of the
• 11:20first edition of the DSM
• 11:21nineteen fifty, fifty four
• 11:24Sorry, it's fifty two It's
• 11:25fifty four that we get
• 11:26chlorpromazine in in the United
• 11:28States fifty two in France
• 11:30Sorry, that's my historian brain
• 11:32working.
• 11:34People like David Healy, a
• 11:35pharmacologist
• 11:36in Wales have suggested that
• 11:38the 1950s
• 11:39is a dramatic change in
• 11:41the way that psychiatrists are
• 11:43both recognizing mental disorders and
• 11:45treating them.
• 11:46So categorizing things according to
• 11:48symptoms and syndromes,
• 11:49which we see on display
• 11:50in the first edition,
• 11:52but also looking to pharmacology
• 11:55as a sort of first
• 11:56point of therapy,
• 11:58separate from psychotherapy,
• 12:00separate from the psychoanalysis that
• 12:01had been the mainstay earlier.
• 12:03And this dramatic shift also
• 12:05changes
• 12:06quite significantly changes the way
• 12:09that we assess risks, benefits
• 12:11and harms.
• 12:13And psychedelics kind of fit
• 12:15awkwardly in that moment. I
• 12:16think in some ways they're
• 12:18kind of ushered in with
• 12:19this enthusiasm
• 12:20for seeing psychopharmacology,
• 12:22as,
• 12:24as really potentially life saving,
• 12:25life extending, you know, this
• 12:25is going to revolutionize psychiatry,
• 12:26but extending. You know, this
• 12:27is going to revolutionize
• 12:29psychiatry.
• 12:30But psychedelics don't fit neatly
• 12:32into the daily dose pharmaceutical
• 12:35models that are being presented
• 12:37by antipsychotics,
• 12:38anti anxiety and antidepressants
• 12:40that come on the market
• 12:41in the 1950s.
• 12:43And quite early on by
• 12:45the mid 1950s, this is
• 12:47an example from a little
• 12:48bit later in the 1950s,
• 12:49there are a number of
• 12:50treatment modules that don't fit
• 12:52into those other
• 12:53practical,
• 12:54into those other applications.
• 12:56The treatment of alcoholism is
• 12:58one of the key examples.
• 12:59And here are some examples.
• 13:01Some of these are from
• 13:02Saskatchewan, but there are, of
• 13:03course, a number of examples
• 13:05we could draw from Spring
• 13:06Grove Hospital in Maryland as
• 13:08well.
• 13:10By the 1950s,
• 13:11the, the,
• 13:13most recognized intervention for alcoholism.
• 13:16And when we talk about
• 13:16addiction in the 1950s, no
• 13:18one's really talking about drug
• 13:19addiction yet. There are some
• 13:21examples, but alcoholism is the
• 13:23big one.
• 13:24Alcoholics Anonymous is of course,
• 13:26the most popular intervention, the
• 13:28twelve step model,
• 13:29and in early editions of
• 13:31their, their manual,
• 13:33step two suggests that people
• 13:35have to accept a power
• 13:36higher than themselves.
• 13:38There are different, versions of
• 13:40this step too, but
• 13:42some have interpreted it as
• 13:43a kind of acceptance of
• 13:45ego death, or it need
• 13:46to accept a reduction of
• 13:48ego. Others have said you
• 13:49had to accept God or
• 13:51some kind of spiritual reality.
• 13:53And bill Wilson really struggled
• 13:54with this step and argued
• 13:56that, and actually suggested to
• 13:58psychedelic researchers
• 13:59that
• 14:00psychedelics might actually help people
• 14:02get there.
• 14:04He had quite a lot
• 14:04of correspondence with researchers, both
• 14:07in Maryland and in Saskatchewan.
• 14:09And I've got a couple
• 14:10of examples here where you
• 14:11can find out more about
• 14:12what he said specifically,
• 14:14but Wilson was concerned about
• 14:16taking psychedelics
• 14:17that would compromise his model
• 14:19of sobriety that he represented
• 14:21for all of those people
• 14:22in this twelve, twelve step
• 14:24program.
• 14:25Despite that he did get
• 14:27supplies from Humphrey Osmond,
• 14:29he quietly and in a
• 14:30clandestine way, took LSD
• 14:32and agreed
• 14:34that actually it was extremely
• 14:36powerful and would help to
• 14:37overcome some of the concerns
• 14:39and some of the hesitancy
• 14:40to joining this twelve step
• 14:41program in the first place
• 14:43and in quiet ways. And,
• 14:44and I might,
• 14:46lean on, on Chris for
• 14:47this, but I believe there
• 14:49were, there were chapters in
• 14:50Montana, North Dakota, Saskatchewan, and
• 14:53Manitoba, for sure
• 14:55that were advertising psychedelic therapies
• 14:57as a way into alcoholics
• 14:59anonymous.
• 15:00Now for good reason, there
• 15:01are some AA historians who
• 15:03don't want to, point to
• 15:05that history.
• 15:06But we do see it
• 15:07kind of bringing together of
• 15:08these ideas. And one of
• 15:10the things that I think
• 15:11is really interesting here is
• 15:12that Alcoholics Anonymous was a
• 15:14great way to do follow-up
• 15:15studies.
• 15:16Once people joined into that,
• 15:19in this case, a fraternity
• 15:20or a kind of brotherhood
• 15:21of support, women weren't allowed
• 15:23for the first little while.
• 15:25They kept touch with, kept
• 15:27in touch with people and
• 15:28the follow-up studies were much
• 15:29more robust when people joined
• 15:31Alcoholics Anonymous
• 15:32following their LSD experience.
• 15:35Anyway, I can talk more
• 15:35about that if anyone has
• 15:37questions later.
• 15:38I'm going to zoom through
• 15:39to a bit of the
• 15:40prohibition because I want to
• 15:41pull on some of these
• 15:42threads a little bit more.
• 15:44By the mid to late
• 15:451960s,
• 15:47psychedelics had taken on a
• 15:48different set of connotations.
• 15:50One that had kind of
• 15:51moved away from the clinical
• 15:53enthusiasm that some of these
• 15:54psychedelic researchers in the 1950s
• 15:57really truly embraced.
• 15:58And psychedelics
• 15:59seem to have kind of
• 16:01either
• 16:01leaked out of the clinic
• 16:03or, you know, come out
• 16:04of the clinic in a
• 16:05variety of different ways. We
• 16:06know, of course, that people
• 16:07can find mushrooms without going
• 16:09to a doctor or, you
• 16:10know, you can you can
• 16:11find these substances and or
• 16:12make them yourselves.
• 16:14But the association between psychedelics
• 16:17and countercultural activities
• 16:18or
• 16:19dangerous activities, abusive qualities
• 16:22really kind of took on,
• 16:24a tempo of its own
• 16:26and changed some of the
• 16:27popular discourse.
• 16:29High times, for example, some
• 16:30of you may be familiar
• 16:31with this or know that
• 16:32it exists. The first issue,
• 16:35it's kind of grainy here,
• 16:36but, is a woman eating
• 16:37a mushroom, which I presume
• 16:39was meant to appear to
• 16:41be a psychedelic mushroom.
• 16:43This idea that people were
• 16:45taking
• 16:46psychedelics in a non clinical
• 16:48context really made it difficult
• 16:49for researchers to continue their
• 16:51work.
• 16:52And I think, yeah, I
• 16:53think I have an image
• 16:54here. This is from a
• 16:54graphic novel that we produced
• 16:56trying to get this story
• 16:57out to new audiences.
• 16:59This is based on the
• 17:00Saskatchewan research, but
• 17:02Humphrey Osmond, who was the
• 17:04guy who coined the word
• 17:05and continued to do trials
• 17:06throughout the 1950s,
• 17:07said that by the early
• 17:10and later into the 1960s,
• 17:12it became increasingly difficult
• 17:14to attract what he described
• 17:16as, you know, good quality
• 17:17candidates for their trials.
• 17:19They couldn't find people,
• 17:21who were sort of, we
• 17:22might say naive drug users
• 17:24at this time, but people
• 17:25were coming and he said,
• 17:26some of them even brought
• 17:27their own records.
• 17:29They weren't content to listen
• 17:30to the playlist that they
• 17:31had developed within the clinic.
• 17:33In fact, people wanted to
• 17:34listen to, you know, songs
• 17:35with lyrics, maybe even rock
• 17:37and roll.
• 17:38You know, this trying to
• 17:40ventriloquize this kind of 1950s
• 17:43attitude. A number of students
• 17:45were coming in
• 17:46and looking for x, they
• 17:48had higher expectations, I should
• 17:50rephrase that they had preconceived
• 17:53expectations
• 17:54for what might happen, they
• 17:55felt frustrated
• 17:56when they didn't get an
• 17:57active dose of in this
• 17:59case, mostly LSD.
• 18:01And as a result, it
• 18:02changed the context of the
• 18:04clinical trial environment. And it
• 18:05frustrated researchers who, even though
• 18:08they didn't feel that psychedelics
• 18:09fit neatly into a randomized
• 18:11controlled trial context, they nonetheless,
• 18:13were really
• 18:15frustrated and stymied in their
• 18:17efforts to try to get
• 18:18good science in this context.
• 18:22Let's see. And this is
• 18:24not something that was unique
• 18:26to,
• 18:27one particular place in the
• 18:28world. Of course, there
• 18:30are lots of images that
• 18:31are kind of flourished from
• 18:33places like Haight Ashbury, or
• 18:34we might think about, you
• 18:35know, bohemian places in New
• 18:37York.
• 18:38But actually there's quite a
• 18:40kind of countercultural
• 18:41embrace of psychedelics
• 18:43that
• 18:43that touches off in different
• 18:45parts of the world. And
• 18:45so here are a few
• 18:46examples.
• 18:48You know, kind of a
• 18:49shout out to the hippie
• 18:50trail or
• 18:51the Israeli psychedelic society from
• 18:54the 1960s
• 18:55down on the bottom right.
• 18:57The Bezoku is, was,
• 18:59I guess, a magazine, a
• 19:01kind of,
• 19:03really crudely published, but this,
• 19:05very interesting kind of graphic
• 19:08design in Japan that would
• 19:10lead people to different music
• 19:12clubs and different places that
• 19:14you could get supplies as
• 19:15well. And, of course, album
• 19:16covers,
• 19:17lots of things.
• 19:19We see psychedelics kind of
• 19:21woven into the cultural aesthetic
• 19:23in a variety of places
• 19:24that stretch far beyond the
• 19:26United States and Canada.
• 19:28And by the end of
• 19:29the 1960s,
• 19:31there's some pretty heavy handed
• 19:32language that both changes the
• 19:34clinical context
• 19:35in terms of creating new
• 19:37laws and prohibitions, but also
• 19:39begins to invest in a
• 19:40public, a fairly aggressive public
• 19:42health campaign
• 19:43that really, I think, tries
• 19:46to connect the public association
• 19:48with psychedelics,
• 19:49with extreme danger, suicides, homicides,
• 19:53frying your brain like an
• 19:54egg in a hot pan,
• 19:56if you will.
• 19:58And I think, you know,
• 19:59that has kind of it
• 20:01really cooled not only the
• 20:02research, it was very difficult
• 20:04to get funding for research,
• 20:05even in jurisdictions where LSD
• 20:07was not I'll I'll pick
• 20:08on LSD here, but where
• 20:09psychedelics,
• 20:10including LSD, were not prohibited
• 20:12outright.
• 20:13The funding environment and the
• 20:15social reputation
• 20:16that,
• 20:17colleagues describe,
• 20:22faced with this kind of
• 20:23chilling environment.
• 20:25And that kind of sticks
• 20:27in place for quite a
• 20:28while.
• 20:30You know, I mentioned that
• 20:31I was working on this
• 20:32in the early 2000s. And,
• 20:33you know, I was able
• 20:34to talk to and then
• 20:35very fortunate to be able
• 20:36to talk to some of
• 20:37the people who'd done research
• 20:38in the 1950s. But there
• 20:39were very few people who
• 20:40were sort of newly entering
• 20:42into the field of psychiatry
• 20:43or even in neuroscience,
• 20:45neuroscience, who were excited to
• 20:47talk to me about this.
• 20:48And maybe I was going
• 20:49in the wrong circles.
• 20:51But it definitely was a
• 20:52different conversation.
• 20:54And if we look, I
• 20:55grabbed this,
• 20:56today, it only went up
• 20:57to twenty twenty one. And
• 20:59I'm sure if, if we
• 21:00went further, I believe there
• 21:01are now, claims that there
• 21:02are about seven hundred clinical
• 21:04trials have taken place
• 21:06using,
• 21:07psychedelics.
• 21:08I see ketamine is not
• 21:09included in here, which is
• 21:10probably absolutely accurate.
• 21:12But anyway, if you added
• 21:13ketamine, this would just,
• 21:15well, it would open a
• 21:16number, another can of worms,
• 21:17but, but it would change
• 21:18the, the graph again.
• 21:20What we see is the
• 21:21rise of clinical research coming
• 21:23to the fore quite, quite
• 21:25dramatically
• 21:26now,
• 21:27particularly in the last,
• 21:29eight or nine years.
• 21:32And some of you may
• 21:33have seen this article in
• 21:35JAMA.
• 21:36What year was this in
• 21:37twenty twenty two? This was
• 21:38from the Johns Hopkins group,
• 21:39David Yaden, Roland Griffiths and
• 21:41others,
• 21:42who suggested that, you know,
• 21:43we needed to think about
• 21:44psychedelics
• 21:45using this particular kind of
• 21:47cycle.
• 21:48And you know, I'm not
• 21:49sure where we are exactly
• 21:50on the cycle or if
• 21:51I even agree with it
• 21:52entirely, but it does seem
• 21:54that, you know, there was
• 21:55enthusiasm,
• 21:56there was a crash. And
• 21:57now if we,
• 21:59if we look at that
• 22:00as a dress rehearsal for
• 22:01today's psychedelic Renaissance,
• 22:03we may,
• 22:04perhaps we should be preparing
• 22:06ourselves for
• 22:08another bit of a crash.
• 22:10And maybe that was the
• 22:11Lycos,
• 22:12you know,
• 22:13the FDA decision, perhaps,
• 22:16we might be, we might
• 22:17be able to think about
• 22:18different things that have started
• 22:19to poke holes in the
• 22:20peak of inflated expectations if
• 22:22we follow the the hype
• 22:24cycle.
• 22:25But I would just wanna
• 22:26quickly,
• 22:27suggest
• 22:28something a little bit different.
• 22:30And
• 22:31I'm
• 22:32I think that as a
• 22:33historian working in this area,
• 22:34so I'm not clinically trained.
• 22:36I read clinical material, but
• 22:38I I don't prescribe. I
• 22:40don't see patients. So I'm
• 22:41in some ways, you know,
• 22:42I'm fairly set back from
• 22:43this. But in another way,
• 22:44I think, you know, historians
• 22:46and social scientists may also
• 22:47have different methods or different
• 22:48skills for assessing how psychedelics
• 22:51are sort of fitting into
• 22:52society today.
• 22:53So I grabbed these this
• 22:55morning as as I thought
• 22:56I would I would, play
• 22:57with this a little bit.
• 22:59There is a risk perhaps,
• 23:00or maybe there is a
• 23:01risk of having a bit
• 23:02of a cultural flashback. That
• 23:03is that the sort of
• 23:05counterculture, and maybe we'll update
• 23:06it with a different word,
• 23:08but the the appetite for
• 23:10psychedelics, for the nonmedical use
• 23:12of psychedelics may outpace
• 23:14our efforts to,
• 23:16get a handle on the
• 23:17risks
• 23:18and the benefits through clinical
• 23:20trials that maybe we're kind
• 23:21of running on two different
• 23:22paths or at least two
• 23:23different paths. These are just
• 23:25a couple of examples. I
• 23:26chose Seth Rogen because he's
• 23:27Canadian and I thought that
• 23:28was fun.
• 23:30But, just this morning, I
• 23:32saw this article about a
• 23:33teen who was using chat
• 23:34GPT
• 23:35as a trip sitter or
• 23:37a guide,
• 23:39and says died of an
• 23:40overdose. I would question some
• 23:41of the things in the
• 23:42articles. But nonetheless, I wanted
• 23:44to put this out that
• 23:45these are some of the
• 23:46media
• 23:47headlines that are out there
• 23:48and accessible.
• 23:50Of course, there are celebrities.
• 23:51I decided to pick on
• 23:52some,
• 23:54hockey players and athletes.
• 23:56But you could easily do
• 23:57this with other celebrities whose
• 23:59voices or platforms and certainly
• 24:02their social media profiles
• 24:04are much larger
• 24:05than many of our our
• 24:07clinical trials, and they're grabbing
• 24:08a lot of attention
• 24:10and creating, I think, a
• 24:11bit of a buzz about
• 24:12psychedelics and what they offer.
• 24:15So in Canada,
• 24:17our government, our federal government
• 24:19decriminalized
• 24:20cannabis in twenty eighteen and
• 24:22made it legally available in,
• 24:25cannabis shops. They have to
• 24:26be regulated,
• 24:27you know, they pay taxes,
• 24:28they go through certain bureaucratic,
• 24:30hoops, but cannabis is legally
• 24:32available. And it's surprising how
• 24:34many cannabis shops there are
• 24:35across Canada. So for fun,
• 24:38I think I look like
• 24:39a soccer mom, I certainly
• 24:40identify as one, I just
• 24:42go into cannabis shops and
• 24:43I ask, can I buy
• 24:44psilocybin mushrooms? And usually they
• 24:46say no. And then I
• 24:46ask again.
• 24:47And occasionally if you ask
• 24:49enough times,
• 24:51they say yes, but I
• 24:52can't give you a receipt
• 24:54or
• 24:55here's the number you can
• 24:56call. And it's very interesting.
• 24:57I haven't actually called those
• 24:58numbers or, taken them up
• 25:00on these,
• 25:02say that this is recorded.
• 25:03But
• 25:04what I think is really
• 25:05interesting is, you know, the
• 25:07the kind of street level
• 25:08knowledge and the sort of
• 25:10cultural embrace of psychedelics, again,
• 25:12is maybe at a different
• 25:13pace or in a different
• 25:15moving in a different direction
• 25:16than some of the clinical
• 25:17research.
• 25:18So this is one street
• 25:19in Toronto, I was there
• 25:21for a conference in twenty
• 25:22twenty four. So I went
• 25:23with some of my students
• 25:24and we just walked down
• 25:25and you can see my
• 25:26favorite one is the House
• 25:27of Mush. I don't know
• 25:28what's under the the black
• 25:30part there. But you can
• 25:31see that the sign was
• 25:32a cannabis shop and it's
• 25:34just been painted over with
• 25:35black paint.
• 25:37These are not
• 25:38legal,
• 25:40but the city has often
• 25:41turned a blind eye to
• 25:42them. Now I don't know
• 25:42if they're open today. I
• 25:44know some have had raids,
• 25:44but some of them, I'm
• 25:45told by friends who live
• 25:46in Toronto, are still open.
• 25:48So there's already this kind
• 25:49of street level shift towards
• 25:51the avail making
• 25:52psychedelics available.
• 25:54When I went in and
• 25:55asked questions,
• 25:57it turns out you can
• 25:57get a lot more than
• 25:58mushrooms in these places, mostly
• 26:00psychedelics.
• 26:02But I was surprised,
• 26:04at the variety of products
• 26:05that are available.
• 26:07I went to Vancouver. Again,
• 26:09I was there for a
• 26:09conference. So here I am
• 26:10with one of my postdocs,
• 26:12Zoe Debus, and a co
• 26:13author is,
• 26:15Jesse
• 26:16Donaldson.
• 26:17And these are two streets
• 26:18in Vancouver now.
• 26:20But again, we're starting to
• 26:22see
• 26:23open displays of,
• 26:26psychedelic dispensaries
• 26:28without a change in the
• 26:29laws.
• 26:30One, I'm just going to
• 26:31zoom in here for a
• 26:32moment,
• 26:33with one exception. And so
• 26:34far, to my knowledge, this
• 26:36is the only exception in
• 26:37Canada
• 26:38where there's a medical mushroom
• 26:39dispensary, the Coca Leaf Cafe.
• 26:41And just to,
• 26:43on this picture, it's the
• 26:44one with Zoe and I
• 26:44there, it says mushroom dispensary.
• 26:46So it's got a giant
• 26:47neon pink sign. It's not
• 26:49discreet.
• 26:51You don't have to search
• 26:52hard to find it.
• 26:54Inside the store owner, Dana
• 26:56Larson, who's the man on
• 26:57the left here,
• 26:58he's been an open advocate
• 27:00and you can find information
• 27:01about him simply through Google.
• 27:03But he's been advocating
• 27:05for changes in drug laws
• 27:07despite or in spite of
• 27:09clinical research. So he said
• 27:10I asked him directly,
• 27:12do you read the clinical
• 27:14research on this to create,
• 27:15you know, your advice and
• 27:16your stories? He said, no.
• 27:18I don't think any of
• 27:19my consumers are reading clinical
• 27:20trials, so I try to
• 27:21meet them where they're at.
• 27:23He offers free drug,
• 27:25free drug testing in all
• 27:26of his three storefronts. He's
• 27:28been raided many times. He's
• 27:29been shut down, but he
• 27:30did relatively recently win, an
• 27:32injuncture with the municipal government
• 27:35to keep his store open.
• 27:36And he provides free drug
• 27:38testing. So he's got a
• 27:39bit of a different attitude,
• 27:41a rogue attitude, perhaps radical,
• 27:43maybe progressive
• 27:44in thinking about how do
• 27:46we
• 27:46bring up the level of
• 27:48information
• 27:49about psychedelics
• 27:50and his store has the
• 27:52most information
• 27:53on doses and supplies of
• 27:55any of the stores I've
• 27:56visited.
• 27:58And he offers free drug
• 27:59testing.
• 28:00It's, it's quite interesting.
• 28:03So I just, I, whoops,
• 28:05I pointed that out as
• 28:06I think that we might
• 28:08be at a bit of
• 28:09a crossroads or in a
• 28:10moment of an opportunity
• 28:12for psychedelic science to start
• 28:14thinking about the relationship with
• 28:15psychedelic culture,
• 28:17who should we trust when
• 28:19it comes to psychedelics?
• 28:21And I think
• 28:22my personal opinion is that
• 28:23we need to engage all
• 28:25of these communities and not
• 28:27put all of our eggs
• 28:27in one basket. So we've
• 28:28got examples here. I
• 28:31choose a bit of not
• 28:32totally at random, but peer
• 28:33support counseling.
• 28:35The black and white image
• 28:36is actually from a nineteen
• 28:37fifty three,
• 28:39photo essay. Humphrey Osmond is
• 28:40in that picture. It's a
• 28:41bit menacing. These all these
• 28:43male doctors looking in, but
• 28:44nonetheless, that is,
• 28:46my attempt
• 28:47to gesture towards clinical research.
• 28:49I found the products again,
• 28:51not from personal experience in
• 28:53testing them all, but just
• 28:54looking at the packaging
• 28:56very widely.
• 28:58So there's clearly like a
• 29:00lack of consensus on how
• 29:01to talk about dosing
• 29:03in the wild, if you
• 29:04will. And then of course
• 29:05there are kind of ceremonial
• 29:06or a Paris or ceremonial,
• 29:10ways of accessing psychedelics
• 29:12that often involve travel.
• 29:15So I'm gonna just wrap
• 29:16up with my kind of
• 29:18proposal, I suppose.
• 29:21I think, I think it
• 29:22would be, you know, we're
• 29:23in a good moment in
• 29:24time to start thinking about
• 29:26the way that these I'm
• 29:27gonna call them cosmic contexts
• 29:28of care. Cause I like
• 29:29alliteration.
• 29:30But the way these different
• 29:31domains or subcultures
• 29:33both feed into each other
• 29:34and also have their own
• 29:36mechanisms,
• 29:37protocols, or rituals
• 29:38for evaluating
• 29:40trust and risk and benefits.
• 29:42And I don't think that
• 29:44currently our our sort of
• 29:46system for knowledge production embraces
• 29:48all of these categories equally,
• 29:50or maybe even embraces all
• 29:51of them, period.
• 29:54I think
• 29:56that
• 29:57right now, there's a lot
• 29:58of emphasis on the production
• 30:00of clinical knowledge, which I
• 30:01think is absolutely critical and
• 30:03important.
• 30:03But I think we should
• 30:05probably open up the our
• 30:07conversations and involve some of
• 30:09those other factors, those other
• 30:10features, the, the money here
• 30:12is not just, you know,
• 30:13capitalism, but I mean, you
• 30:15know, those who are selling
• 30:16psychedelics,
• 30:17I'll say in the wild
• 30:18in a very sort of
• 30:19generic way, but either through
• 30:21registered storefronts or
• 30:23even even sort of deeper
• 30:25into,
• 30:27dark web sort of categories.
• 30:28But there's a whole sort
• 30:29of psychedelic economy
• 30:31that exists
• 30:33as part of the clinical
• 30:34research, but certainly also quite
• 30:36separate from it in in
• 30:37other ways.
• 30:40I put carnival there again
• 30:41for the alliteration, but think,
• 30:42you know, music festival from
• 30:44Grateful Dead through to, you
• 30:45know, Burning Man today or
• 30:47or others you can think
• 30:48of as well. But there's
• 30:49a whole kind of set
• 30:50of rituals
• 30:51and, care features that are
• 30:53wrapped up in those festival
• 30:54contexts.
• 30:56And I
• 30:57I don't know how I'm
• 30:58doing on time. And maybe,
• 31:01do I have if is
• 31:02there five more minutes, or
• 31:03should I wrap up? More
• 31:04than. There's plenty of time.
• 31:06Awesome. Then I'll I'll give
• 31:07you my little case example
• 31:09as to why I've kind
• 31:10of pulled the ceremony out
• 31:11here.
• 31:15I'll I'll I'll I'll come
• 31:16back to this as the
• 31:17conclusion, though.
• 31:19So for the last few
• 31:20years, I've been looking at
• 31:21the case of peyote. So
• 31:22I'll just use this as
• 31:23a little bit of an
• 31:24of the conclusion or outro.
• 31:27Peyote grows in, in Mexico
• 31:29and Texas,
• 31:30naturally,
• 31:33it does not grow in
• 31:33Saskatchewan.
• 31:34I was mentioning to Robert
• 31:36earlier that it's, minus twenty
• 31:37seven in Celsius here today.
• 31:39I guess dangerously close to
• 31:41where Fahrenheit and Celsius come
• 31:43together in the cold zone.
• 31:44It is not conducive to
• 31:46a cactus growing environment.
• 31:48However,
• 31:49there are families, First Nations,
• 31:51Metis, and indigenous families here
• 31:53in Saskatchewan,
• 31:55who I've been working with
• 31:56who have been part of
• 31:58a legacy of pilgrimages
• 32:00into both Mexico and Texas
• 32:02for the purposes of harvesting
• 32:04peyote and bringing them back
• 32:05sometimes through the auspices of
• 32:07the Native American church, which
• 32:09maybe,
• 32:10certainly has chapters in the
• 32:11United States as well, in
• 32:12fact, originated there, but also
• 32:14through ceremonies involving peyote.
• 32:16Now it's quite quite amazing.
• 32:18And right now it looks
• 32:20like the the sort of
• 32:21one of the main portals
• 32:22is through the Mex, Montana,
• 32:24Alberta border, which is interesting
• 32:26in and of itself.
• 32:28So for the past few
• 32:28years, I've been I've been
• 32:29working with elders,
• 32:31traditional grandmothers, knowledge keepers in
• 32:34a First Nations community who
• 32:35are the descendants of the
• 32:36people in Canada
• 32:38who registered the Native American
• 32:40church, which they did in
• 32:41nineteen fifty four.
• 32:43So these are some examples
• 32:44here. And I'll talk a
• 32:45little bit about Kelly Daniels,
• 32:47who is the tall man
• 32:48in the bottom image there.
• 32:50I'm not that tall.
• 32:54So Kelly Daniels is the
• 32:56grandson
• 32:58of the
• 32:59the first family in Canada
• 33:01to legally register the Native
• 33:03American church.
• 33:05And we know that which
• 33:06they as I said, they
• 33:07did this in nineteen fifty
• 33:08four.
• 33:09It wasn't until nineteen fifty
• 33:11one that First Nations people
• 33:13in Canada could legally retain
• 33:15a lawyer.
• 33:17So had they wanted to
• 33:18do this earlier, they simply
• 33:19would have been prohibited for
• 33:20a variety of reasons, including
• 33:22the most basic, which was
• 33:23they needed a lawyer to
• 33:24sign off on these forms.
• 33:26So
• 33:27it wasn't until that time.
• 33:28But certainly, Peyote was crossing
• 33:30the border much earlier. And
• 33:32we have police records and
• 33:33customs reports suggesting that this
• 33:35happened at least into the
• 33:37nineteenth sort of going backwards
• 33:38into the nineteenth century and
• 33:40oral histories that suggest even
• 33:41earlier.
• 33:42So Kelly was hired at
• 33:43the First Nations University in
• 33:45Canada of Canada rather.
• 33:47He's a ceremonial leader.
• 33:49He's a cultural knowledge keeper.
• 33:52And he's wise,
• 33:53on a number of different
• 33:54ceremonies. He did not go
• 33:56to residential school. He was
• 33:57raised by his grandparents who
• 33:59taught him a number of
• 34:00traditional ways, including
• 34:02including with peyote ceremonies. But
• 34:04it recently became known to
• 34:06some of the other some
• 34:07of his colleagues at First
• 34:08Nations University,
• 34:09that he was engaging in
• 34:11peyote ceremonies, of which he
• 34:13did not deny this. And
• 34:14he feels that these are
• 34:15a very important part of
• 34:16what it means for him
• 34:17to be a Plains Cree
• 34:19man
• 34:20working and living in this
• 34:21culture.
• 34:23Upon hearing this, his job
• 34:24was threatened.
• 34:27And it was an interesting
• 34:28moment. So I got a
• 34:29phone call from him and
• 34:30we immediately assembled a team
• 34:32and we went off to
• 34:33meet with the elders council
• 34:34and we gave a history
• 34:35lesson. We had a lawyer
• 34:37with us who explained the
• 34:38sort of legal rights that
• 34:39accrue to, people who use
• 34:41peyote in an indigenous ceremony.
• 34:44And luckily his, he still
• 34:46has his job today.
• 34:48But it was a really
• 34:49quick and,
• 34:51you know, a very good
• 34:52reminder that the benefits of
• 34:54psychedelic knowledge and research are
• 34:56not accruing evenly,
• 34:58even perhaps,
• 35:00when we think that this
• 35:01may be helpful to some
• 35:02of the indigenous,
• 35:04people who've been preserving these
• 35:05ceremonies for a long time.
• 35:08When I look at, you
• 35:09know, there were the next
• 35:11call, Kelly and I've been
• 35:12working together now for a
• 35:13little while. So there were
• 35:13probably some calls in between.
• 35:15But the next call where
• 35:16we were asked to jointly
• 35:18present
• 35:19was at a federal jail.
• 35:21This is the Canada Corrections
• 35:22Centre, which is this particular
• 35:24one is in Northern Saskatchewan,
• 35:25close to where Kelly lives.
• 35:27And
• 35:28I'll talk about that in
• 35:29just a moment. But, just
• 35:30for context,
• 35:32this is a part of
• 35:33Canada that still has boil
• 35:34water advisories
• 35:36and it's on first nations
• 35:38reserves and where we have
• 35:39a disproportionate number of indigenous
• 35:41people in, in jails relative
• 35:43to the non indigenous population.
• 35:44So just, just to kind
• 35:46of anchor us there,
• 35:48the call we got from
• 35:48the corrections agency was that
• 35:51they wanted to include more
• 35:53culturally sensitive programming for their
• 35:55parole officers to help people,
• 35:58to reduce recidivism.
• 36:00So to bring people into
• 36:01ceremony as they left the,
• 36:03federal, the jail
• 36:05or penitentiary?
• 36:06And could they engage in
• 36:07ceremony?
• 36:08And they'd heard about peyote
• 36:10ceremonies and they wondered whether
• 36:11this might help some of
• 36:12their parolees
• 36:14and immediately
• 36:15this kind of raised alarm
• 36:16bells.
• 36:18So again,
• 36:19some elders, including,
• 36:21Kelly, myself, a lawyer were
• 36:22asked to go and talk
• 36:23to corrections agents.
• 36:25And they're sitting with this
• 36:26information right now. We don't
• 36:27know what they're going to
• 36:28decide ultimately,
• 36:29but it's very interesting to
• 36:31see that depending on the
• 36:32context you're in, the conversation
• 36:33about psychedelics is changing really
• 36:35quite, dramatically.
• 36:37And yet I think we
• 36:38often hold up the indigenous
• 36:40knowledge as really a sort
• 36:41of a privileged piece of
• 36:42information in our psychedelic journey.
• 36:45But the benefits are not
• 36:46accruing to those communities in
• 36:48the same fashion.
• 36:50So I wanted to just
• 36:51end here in thinking about
• 36:53who benefits from psychedelic knowledge,
• 36:54but also where might we
• 36:56look for understanding what I'll
• 36:58kind of awkwardly call psychedelic
• 37:00harm reduction?
• 37:01And I know that's not
• 37:02quite the right term, but
• 37:04in,
• 37:05I don't have the right
• 37:06vocabulary to suggest a different
• 37:08term right now, but I
• 37:09think as we move forward,
• 37:11whether the science of psychedelics
• 37:13goes out to demonstrate that
• 37:14there are
• 37:16good strong benefits, it it
• 37:18people will be taking psychedelics
• 37:20outside the clinical context, and
• 37:21we have to be ready
• 37:22for that cultural embrace. And
• 37:24I think it's important to
• 37:25remember, you know, who is
• 37:27affected disproportionately by this and
• 37:28and how we might work
• 37:29together to try to mitigate
• 37:30some of those harms and
• 37:32hopefully invest in some kind
• 37:33of sustainable psychedelic science going
• 37:35forward.
• 37:36That's what I've got. Thanks.
• 37:40I can stop sharing.